For a little over a month now I’ve been working with the Pagans Against Child Abuse (PACA) group on a project to monitor a popular pagan site for pedophile activity and help the online Pagan community to start to police themselves. The Ning hosted PaganSpace, is fast becoming a mainstay of the online Pagan community, (where even supposed Feminist Wiccan author Z Budapest has a profile) and as quickly it has become a virtual pedophiles’ playground where interaction between adults and teens is not only tolerated but encouraged.
For the past few months PACA has had a relationship with the PaganSpace administrative staff, specifically Admins “Starfire“, “Nyx Darksky” and “Cassandra,” that was acrimonious at best. The Ultimate Evil has a post about one online encounter which should give you a feel for what PaganSpace actually is and how these three “witches” run the site to the benefit of those seeking to abuse children. The first two of these parasitic enablers of child rape use their Ning hosted site to promote their Internet businesses like Alexandrian House where “Starfire” self publishes poorly written and largely useless metaphysical works and Wicca-Mart where Nyx Darksky milks the Wiccan sub-culture to continue her degenerate, shiftless lifestyle.
I point out their business interests in keeping PaganSpace as active as possible (and nothing keeps a social network active like having needy teen girls interact with adult men in forums called Sacred Sexuality or Polyamory) because the alternative reason for these women allowing and covering up adult men initiating sexual relationships with teens girls is that they simply don’t think it’s wrong, and indeed they have been taught to think it’s part of Wicca. In deference to my PACA colleagues and the many Wiccan friends I have I present this alternative explanation, although most people know where I stand on this issue.
In any case, it is disappointing, but not surprising, that a popular gathering place for Wiccans would become a place that welcomes child rapists and ended up banning every member of PACA who spoke out against the grooming of children by adults. What is surprising is how openly vicious the Wiccan members of PaganSpace were toward child advocates. Women who criticized men in their 40s, 50s and in one case 60s for sending sexually suggestive cartoons to girls as young as 14 or 15 were told they were acting “Christian” and PACA itself was said to be endangering children.
PACA collected ample evidence that men who were actively grooming underage girls were warned by administrators that they were being watched, and the actions of those same administrators when these issues were brought to their attention was to scrub the site of material in a ham fisted and ill-conceived effort to protect the offenders. At every turn PaganSpace protected the men who were trolling their site for teens as zealously as a mother protects her young.
The offenders themselves, still quite active on PaganSpace as of this writing, were allowed to threaten and harass PACA members, including women, after they were tipped off to the fact that many had been reported to the proper authorities. Here’s an excerpt of the kind of messages one degenerate pervert, Ken, left on the page I had kept there after learning in passing that it was my practice to report suspect behavior to law enforcement. It should be noted that I never mentioned him by name, but upon hearing that I did my civic duty he exploded:
Odd rape references aside, the person’s anger with me stemmed completely from his fear that I reported his unseemly messaging with teen girls to the cops, which I did admittedly. He wasn’t singled out in public by me however, but knew he was one of those reported. I guess he felt guilty.
The point is that the people who run PaganSpace, and at this time I would use the term people loosely, have actively taken the side of unstable degenerates who people, in good faith, have warned are using their service to attempt to meet with teen girls. How unstable are these degenerates, you ask?
Yes all those messages were to me, and there were dozens more too vile to post. At this point he is still posting to teen girls on the site and the PS community sees nothing wrong with that. After all why would anyone not want that guy to have contact with their children?
Wicca is largely an exercise in leftist astroturfing, a childish blend of cosplay, online role-playing and the feel good faux self-empowerment introduced into Occultism by Starhawk, Margot Adler and Z Budapest. Those serious in their Paganism usually move on to some other religion, like Heathenry, and those interested in the practice of Witchcraft will find Wicca suffering from a dearth of actual Witches. Some of the most popular Wiccan blogs devote countless paragraphs to “progressivism” and some social cause or another while rarely mentioning Wicca in anything more than a cursory manner.
That’s because there isn’t enough meat on Wicca’s philosophical bones to merit more than a cursory mention at all and therein lies the problem.
Unlike an actual religion, Wicca is essentially amoral. Sure there are some convoluted theories about “Karma” and respect for nature, but essentially the only thing the erstwhile Wiccan need do to be in the good graces of other Wiccans is claim to be a Wiccan, sound satisfactorily “open minded” and not, under any circumstances, rock the boat.
The cavalier manner in which Jason Pietz-Waters takes up the cause of Margot Adler, who was called a liar very publicly by Newsbusters, when anyone who’s read her books will tell you she’s fond of stretching the truth, proves much of the Wicca dominated neo-Paganism of today is more about solidarity than what religion is supposed to be: a search for truth.
So it should shock no one that in this anything goes environment child raping perverts are accepted members of the community while those people within the neo-pagan community who try to shine a light on these problems are banished for daring to present Wiccans with what they fear most: a good look at themselves.
In short, parents don’t let your children grow up to be Wiccans unless you’re O.K. with them shacking up with a 55-year-old man they met on PaganSpace who’s decided to become their “craft father” (that’s a scam, by the way, kids, should anyone attempt to tell you otherwise) when she’s in middle school. And if your kids do become Wiccans, by all that’s holy keep them away from PaganSpace.
Update: Matthew C. Rohnkohl emailed to say I wasn’t sufficiently clear about “Starfire” and her relationship to Alexandrian House. Executive V.P. Matt claims “Starfire” isn’t the owner (though he’s coy about who is) in his email to me:
I am contacting you in regards to your slander of my imprint division,
Alexandrian House. My name is Matthew C. Rohnkohl and I am the Executive V.P.
of Alexandrian Archives Inc.By posting this article of yours, you have slandered my company and I request
that you remove it. If you do not, I will have no choice but to take legal
action. Starrfire does not own the company, therefore I am contacting you
regarding your article.Your accusations are unfounded and derived from activity on your part that did
not include notification of administration on Paganspace about violations of
our rules. We have upheld our rules, with no help or notification from you, so
therefore your accusations are simply false.We have the documentation to prove our side and if need be, will submit them to
the proper legal channels. Your actions were legally questionable and also in
violation of our social network rules.I would appreciate your removal and refrain of this slander ASAP. As I said
before, if you do not, you leave me no choice but to take legal action.Sincerely,
Matthew C. Rohnkohl, Executive V.P.
Alexandrian Archives Inc.
My answer to this: bring it on. This sort of nonsense doesn’t impress me. Here’s a hint Matt, if you want to pretend you’re a real business man ready to sue you should email people during business hours, not at 9:52pm
Update: Starfire’s MySpace lists her as Senior Vice-President at Alexandrian Archives. Splitting hairs much Matt? “Starfire” is knee deep in your company.
Rob Taylor,
This is sick. I hope some of these people get jail time for this. Using a religious site to lure in children for sex is disgusting. I hope these kiddy rapist get what they deserve.
I hope so Damien, but these cases can be difficult to prosecute, especially if the people running the site cover the crimes up. That’s why it’s so important people get together and try to police online communities.
Thanks for the support.
Rob Taylor,
Agreed!
Rob: Excellent post! It’s always important to expose this kind of behavior and hold sites accountable for endangering children – hopefully before it’s too late.
Damien: So far, there is no proof of child rape and Rob was sure to not accuse anyone of that. However, your sentiment is dead on! The threat of such a thing is very real and anyone seeing the activity there must feel that – whether they admit to it or not. And yes, using a religious site for such purposes is deplorable! Oh, but they are the first to scream for the heads of the Catholic priests.
Oh, Rob, Don’t forget, that the Ning network has full access to any of its sites, including private profiles. I filed a report with them and after they went offline for an entire evening, they wrote to me and saw some measures have been taken, though not very satisfactory. They will continue monitoring the site in wait for more obvious behavior since previous incidents have been deleted, and they implored me to keep them informed should I hear anything or see anything more. They are very vehement in their TOS rules that they do not tolerate any child endangerment issue and will report immediately to the NCMEC. Ning is to be commended for their very swift (within 12 hours of my message, their network was closed for “maintenance”) investigation!
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Just more stupid people which I’m sure the Feds are certainly watching sites similar like this that promote child molestation. Some of the Feds even pose themselves as children, making the molsters think they are actual under-age children. When the molsters attempt to go meet the child to do the crime, they end up doing the time.
“Your accusations are unfounded and derived from activity on your part that did not include notification of administration on Paganspace about violations of our rules. We have upheld our rules, with no help or notification from you, so therefore your accusations are simply false.”
Where have I heard this before?
I wonder, if Mr. Rohnkohl really has an interest in PaganSpace.net, why is it he does not know of the 13 and 14 year olds that were allowed there – against their rules of 15+ – until all this hit the fan?
Why doesn’t he know of the older men flirting with the 13 – 17 year old girls and engaging them through their memberships in “Sacred Sexuality” and “Pagan Singles”?
What are his thoughts about the RSO allowed to be there by the administrators of the site who friended said RSO?
Perhaps he would like screenshots to trade with his own “documentation”.
And if he does know of all of this, just how far does he think such a permissive reputation will get him when it is all presented in a court of law?
As a Christian fundamentalist group it is our duty to spread the word of the Almighty. Pagan communities are an abomination in the Sight of the Lord. It would give us no greater satisfaction than to witness the demise of such gathering places as Pagan Space. To this end, we moniter such forums day and night. Hard copies of every discussion on these forums are captured by our computers as the comments are posted. Your organization PACA has drawn our attention from the time that the previous, original, moderator was banned from Pagan Space for slander.
Rob Taylor, you and your PACA have the following modus operandi. You single out gentlemen over 40 years of age, and lure them, under the false pretext that you need information that only they will be able to supply, into your so-called discussion. You then proceed to insult them and goad them into a fight. When once they have posted their comments, you delete your own insults making it appear as though they are child molesters. This, sir, is a despicable and cowardly act. This is to be expected from one such as yourself. You are the epitome of evil, the Satan of old, the false accuser of mankind.
Why do you not post your own, original, comments that caused your pagan brother, Ken, to reply in the fashion that he did? No, this you will not do, for in doing so the finger of blame will point directly at you.
By the yardstick that you measure others, so will you be measured Rob Taylor. You have been weighed and found wanting. May God have mercy on you.
Worst fake comment ever, Moby. Or should I say Peter “Stone Warlock” the man who made death threats toward me on PS and defamed me. I’ll blog about it and you can comment there
By the gods man, how retarded are you? At least read through the writings of Christians before trying to imitate one. Very few would refer to themselves as Fundamentalists, none would care about Pagans and almost all would support PACA.
Also I never delete any comments. Which is why I’ll leave this abortion where it is so people can witness the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of modern Wicca. And South Africa.
I’ll make you a wager, demonstrate that “Knights of Christ” is a real organization and I’ll pay you, or better yet drop the lawsuit against your friends for allowing you to claim in public I’m a convicted felon and a RSO. I’m neither. Your friends in Minnesota “any complaints about Red-Alerts.com” on Google won’t get you dirt on me because I’ve never been arrested and the last time I was even in a police station was to fill out my firearm permit paperwork.
I’d say nice try, but this was really piss poor.
Hay Knights! I take exception to your liberal use of the word Satan. The Satan you refer to is your own Christian boogeyman – a non-existent entity.
Thanks for the warning that you are watching us. I will return the compliment – we are watching YOU.
I am not a member of PaganSpace but I was a member of PACA, until I saw what they were really about. Nothing to do with child protection. Just a power trip, nothing more. “Do as we say or we will accuse you of child abuse.” I am still in possession of the `private’ correspondence during the time of your original moderator, in which PACA planned, and executed, false charges against an Atlanta businessman because he refused to advertise PACA free of charge on his website.
Knights, you got it wrong. That original moderator was not banned. She, and her second in charge, were told in no uncertain terms to leave PaganSpace. You got the `slander’ part right. I am still in possession of that original discussion.
Rob, the Knights have a very good point. Why don’t you post your original replies to Ken? Please make sure that they are the original replies. I will correct you if they are wrong. Oh, yeah, another point. Why did you rearrange Ken’s replies? That is not the order in which they were posted now is it? Look at the time recorded on the replies. Naughty, naughty.
I guess, judging by your hard-on for Alexandrian Archives, they must have turned you down regarding the publishing of that book of yours, eh? Just a little something I heard, but as they say, “Where there’s smoke….”
Oh, hi SMP. You also a member of PACA?
Well, you seem to have a little problem at the moment. I am not one of these Knights. What gave you that idea?
Mmmm. Death threats? Criminal record? Did I use YOUR name on my post on PS? Don’t jump to conclusions my friend.
BTW, are you going to post those replies of yours? Let’s see what the truth really is.
“Do as we say or we will accuse you of child abuse.†I am still in possession of the `private’ correspondence during the time of your original moderator, in which PACA planned, and executed, false charges against an Atlanta businessman because he refused to advertise PACA free of charge on his website.”
As I was the most recent “owner” of the PACA group on PaganSpace, and am the owner of the PACA network, I’d be very interested in seeing this “proof” you claim to have, this correspondence. Especially since PACA has never “advertised” anywhere, prior to my taking it over. And even then, it’s only been listed on public sites where listing is freely available.
Which moderator was that? What businessman would that be?
And since you claimed to have all sorts personal information about each of us, I’d be very interested in knowing just how much you were able to learn about me. My real name? My home address? My place of work? Even my telephone number? Get any of that right, and I promise to quake in my boots, but only a little. Feel free to email it to me at my personal email address, the one I have through my local service, not the gmail associated with all my ning accounts… that would be too easy for you to get from Starrfire. I’m sure that, with your incredible detective skills, you were able to dig up that email information? And let me feel your “wroth”. (Here’s a hint, free of charge from the “spelling and grammar nazi” as I had been labeled on PS.net: Spell checker is a wonderful thing.
Blessings to you, Peter the Stone Worlock of The Knights of Christ 😉
Are you retarded?
Since I was banned from PS why not ask your buddy Starfire (Traci) to see them? Because she deleted them?
Your comments provided information that readily identified me so it won’t work to say “But I didn’t use your name” because I will prove in court the comment, which was allowed to stand after she saw it and only taken down after I complained to Ning could only have refered to me and everyone involved knows that. She’s getting sued. Period.
I’ve never been to prison, never been arrested. You’re defaming me. Get a lawyer.
I think Peter is one of those people who likes to play fast and loose with facts. I assume he doesn’t know what defamation is since he seems hell-bent (get it) on making sure he gets as many lawsuits against him as possible. I’ll let you know what my lawyer says Monday.
“You have been weighed and found wanting.”
Does this guy have any comment or thought that isn’t taken directly from a movie or spam mail message?
Knight of the Stone Borelock seems to have an issue of MPD. Who is he talking to? First he answers his Knight persona, then he has 3 consecutive messages seemingly as if someone is communicating here when there is no one but him.
I do enjoy how you found the screen shot of his Pagan Space page when he declares he wasn’t a member there. Nice new post!
As entertaining as this should be, I can’t help but just find it pathetic. Truly and utterly pathetic. I laughed about this earlier but it’s just not funny anymore. Not serious, either. Just sad. Terribly, terribly sad.
I know all the terrible things we witnessed on Pagan Space and the wretched attitudes from the overly tolerant ones there, but there are good people at Pagan Space – few and far between, to be sure, but good people still. They didn’t deserve any of this. They didn’t deserve to be punished for the tolerance of predators, they didn’t deserve to have the rights of predators chosen over their own – being forced to leave in one way or another so the vermin could stay. They don’t deserve now to have this trash aiding to the problems the site is facing and throwing weight to any forthcoming law suit. Quite “stoneless” of him if you ask me.
Aah! So the replies were deleted but not before you had chance to download Ken’s remarks, rearrange them and post them here. How terribly inconvenient. Strange! I would have thought that one of the first things that anybody with a clear conscience would have done was to make sure that his own comments were on hand to avoid any misunderstandings. But, then again, what do I know? I’m retarded.
I never said “But I never used your name”. I asked you a question. Actually, I asked you three questions. Let me rephrase those questions.
Question 1: Did I use YOUR name.?
Question 2: Was this on MY post?
Question 3: Was this post on PaganSpace?
Please answer those questions before the mighty conspiracy deletes them. Oh, while you’re about it, please notarize what the date of my post was.
Ooh Donna! I love the title. BTW, Warlock is spelled with an `A’, not an `O’.
SMP – “stoneless” almost made me do a spit take.
Wow, Pete. You really are stupid.
A) The order of Ken’s comments is random. They aren’t in order because they don’t need to be. They are there to illustrate a general point about Ken and PS in general. Why would I post an entire back and forth? It would bore readers.
B) My comments to him were deleted, by him on his page. Since you know him you probably know that. They ran along the lines of “You suck” if you’re curious.
C) I paraphrased your questions. I answered them on the post about our exchange I just put up, please read them there.
D) You never had something notarized have you? I have a screenshot (with the time on the post) on my other post. A public notary isn’t required.
And please stop linking to pages that go nowhere in your name. I hate having to go in and clean up a grown man’s post.
Jenn: Now YOU made me do a spit take! LOL
Okay, who the heck is “Donna”??? I swear, I have been up and down this thread three times and I can’t see a Donna anywhere. Is it another of “his” personalities? Good lord! They’re multiplying, sex changing, AND arguing!! I take back what I said earlier. This is pretty damned funny.
I think he was talking to me. ROFL
Yes, the “Spelling Nazi” misspelled “Warlock”, but then I always found that title to be ridiculous. However, possibly fitting for someone, if you take each word separately, who always seems to be locked in war… you seem to go out of your way to put yourself smack in the middle of any situation, don’t you.
BTW, you’re not even close. Real name isn’t Donna… nor is there even anyone related to me with that name. Try again, genius. BTW, is it safe to assume that you’re full of shit, since you got my real name completely wrong AND you didn’t email it to me?
Dodia: You’re kidding! Is THAT what he was attempting? Reveal your “real” name? ROFL!!! And here I was believing I was mocking his poor spelling, which wouldn’t have been nearly as pathetic as what he perhaps really was up to. Geez. That’s good. That’s damned good! LOL
Coincidently, I do have a distant relative named Donna. Can’t stand her so I’m glad he’s wrong. 😛 I think it was safe to assume he was full of shit a long time ago ;).
“Wicca is largely an exercise in leftist astroturfing, a childish blend of cosplay, online role-playing and the feel good faux self-empowerment introduced into Occultism by Starhawk, Margot Adler and Z Budapest. ”
LOL!!!!!!
best. sentence. ever.
wow! i have never laughed so hard… it simply amazes me that the only reason this discussion is even taking place is because of one groups irrational hate of another. more or less some Christian nut job doesn’t like pagans, that is fair, but really keep it to yourself. Pagans do not worship your gods alter ego Satan, they don’t even believe in a supreme evil. and guess what, there are crazy ppl like that in every religion so dont be saying pagans condone such things…. look at your beloved catholic priests.
Sorry Wade if you read the article you’d see I am indeed a Pagan, and know that Wiccans don’t worship Satan. Like most Wiccans (the bush leagues of occultism) you’re pretending that it’s “Christian” to have morals. Wiccans like yourself are little more than live action role players who don’t really believe in the gods and thus you aren’t concerned with displeasing them by using their worship as a way to ejaculate into teens.
Try reading a post before commenting on it.
And all this means what? that you had a run in with the owners and are now bad mouthing them? If you had any evidence you would have ran to the cops.. As you seem to indicate that you have not. It would seem that you went there under false pretenses was caught out and thus banned.
If the pedos had invaded the site much like on MySpace, FaceBook, ect. they will be dealt with. You however have been dealt with..
Sure sure. We did report PS to Ning and the police. I don’t know what you think “false pretenses” mean but I joined PS to promote my site (as most people do) and got involved with a little later. I am still promoting on many Ning sites. I would think you’d believe that men who use Wicca to look for teen sex partners are there under false pretenses, but I guess not.
I know that my writing is a little denser than the standard Wiccan fare like Silver Ravenwolf but perhaps you should look at the post again. You’re angry at me for caring about the children in the Pagan community. What does that say about you?
To Wade: In addition to Rob’s very poignant response, I’d like to add (as a Pagan who was raised Catholic) that most Christians don’t view Catholic priests as “beloved”… most other Christian sects don’t even view Catholics as “Christian”. And Catholic priests aren’t even “beloved” by all Catholics. Try doing a bit of research. Or just ask someone who is or was Christian.
To “Kathwynn”: Rob was at PS.net long before the shit hit the fan there. He was banned for getting involved in my group, for helping me to ferret out all the perves, and for backing me up when I attempted to bring their behavior out into the light when nothing was done by PS’s owner or Admins when I reported predatory behavior to them.
While I do realize that it wasn’t our job to monitor perves or the minors on another person’s site, the Admins of that site were obviously not doing it. And so, while it wasn’t our job, it was still our duty as people who care for the well-being of all children.
I was going to post the whole sordid chain of events here, but realized it would not only end up being a long post, but a redundant one, since Rob already covered that in the main post. I suggest that both of you go back and actually read and pay attention to the article posted. Then you may want to follow up by reading some of the comments above so that you can see just how ridiculous the levels to which these people will stoop.
Do you realize how bad it makes Pagans look when you respond to these discussions out of hand, without actually checking the content? To others, it makes us all look uneducated and foolish. To everyone, it makes you seem like you don’t find child predation to be despicable behavior, which makes Pagans in general look bad if you’re claiming to be Pagan.
Where child abuse is concerned, there are no gray areas. We cannot allow child predators to hide behind any religion. The well-being of these children is far more important than “how Pagans look” to the rest of the world. I’m not willing to sacrifice their right to have a safe childhood in order to hide the fact that my religion is being used to prey upon them.
I am just amazed at how less then smart this site is. First of of all, if you posted here, you have the internet, second, if you have the internet, most of the child molesters are not pagan, in fact, its not even registered, it mostly the catholic, mormon and Protestants. Get real people, Us pagans are good people of the earth. We don’t believe in such practice.. Whom ever wrote this page is a vindictive selfish lush. If you fail to learn other faiths and the other religions, you fail to live. GEt real, damn. What idiots… grow up and learn, your own religions are more of the problem, not ours.. check the stats.. then compare…
Guess it just shows what religion does to some… weak minds make weak thoughts
I’m amazed that you didn’t read the post yet continue with a narrative made up from whole cloth at PaganSpace. I never said all child molesters where Pagans, I said PaganSpace allows adults to groom children and the Wiccans specifically, but neo-paganism in general, needs to do a better job policing itself.
All pagans are good people? Silly. And I’m a lush for writing this? Please explain. I don’t imbibe myself but if I did how would this change the point of the post.
Your argument is a classic straw man.
Dear Sir,
I consider it to be most admirable that you and your organisation are working to keep children safe over the internet and while I have no idea about the kind of people on Pagan Space (as I don’t use it), if what is being said is true then it certainly warrants attention so that both the authorities and owners can address the situation and put a stop to it.
Though I feel I must correct a few of your misconceptions about Wicca. The Wicca is a priesthood that practice a Mystery religion and real, traditional Wicca does not initiate anyone under the age of 18. In fact, quite a lot of coven even raise this age-restriction.
This age-restriction serves several purposes: firstly it serves to protect Wiccans themselves from being the targets of allegations such as those levied here. Secondly it is designed to protect young people, so that if they find their way to a coven, group or person that is willing to initiate minors, then they will hopefully be able to realise that it is not a Wiccan coven. The third reason is that the Wicca wish to know that their initiates are sufficiently mature enough (mentally) to practice the religion and have had enough life-experience to know that Wicca is what they really want.
This is the theory. However in practice I personally have never known a Wiccan who was initiated younger than their late twenties and the vast majority of Wiccans I know (and that is a lot) are no younger than their mid-thirties. In fact, they tend to range in age right up to their eighties.
However, I can see the problem that is commonly encountered when discussing Wicca.
The priesthood of the Wicca are alive and well, with many thousands of initiates worldwide. The real problem is that the word “wicca” has been generally misappropriate by the mainstream media and used to apply a whole heap of things – much of which is watered down and bares little resemblance to actual Wicca.
Granted there are a small number of books written by Wiccan authors, but even these only deal with “Outer Court” materials of the religion. In other words, being as Wicca is a Mystery religion, the information in books makes up only about 10% of what Wicca actually is.
The problem goes further in that the watered down “wicca” that fills the book-shelves and much of the internet, tends to dwarf the information that is put out there by the real members of the priesthood. As such, genuine seekers often get lost in the rubbish and think that is what Wicca actually is.
All of this home-built, feel good, fluffy “wicca” just makes it easier for predators to pretend that they’re “the grand high poomba of Wiccan tradition X” and these young kids may well believe them and in so doing not only have the real religion spoiled for them, but also risk putting themselves in real danger.
Meanwhile, the Wicca priesthood can do very little against the onslaught of Llewelyn books, sparkly websites and money-hungry hacks. So instead they more often seek to make themselves available through respected organisation like the Pagan Federation. Though, of course, it must be remembered that the Wicca do not actively seek converts or proselytize, so progress is slow going some times. But that in itself is something that separates real Wicca from faux wicca: Wiccans never offer initiation, it is always the responsibility of the seeker to ask for it.
I hope this has helped a little.
I was a Wiccan. At 13. Granted I was a Seax Wiccan (a Buckland boy so to speak) and ultimately went of a self-initiation and solitary Wicca, long before it was fashionable, mainly because even then (late 80s early 90s) public Wicca was dominated by the unsavory types I describe above.
But I do recognize the difference between the “Inner Court” and the Wicca sub-culture I’m criticism and in fact knew several 3rd degree initiates in the more reputable covens but I’m sure you’d agree with my contention that Wicca today has been hijacked by people more interested in style than substance.
I would very much like to see a public discussion about the dangers of this pop-culture Wicca that didn’t frame the issue as we advocating for safety of children being “Christians” who hate paganism.
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Well for one thing, tl;dr is a bad idea if you want anyone to acftually read everything you say. Though I don’ know who would be interested in your random slander.
“zOMG older then 18 is talking to someone younger then 18!! ZOMG 3H WURLLD IZ GUNNA ENDZes!!!!!!!!!”
First of all Wiccans tend to act the same as Christians as far as their ridiculous prejudices about how one dresses, how magick works, how you are “abnormal” if you actually love somebody or don’t work 9 – 5, etc., etc. Most Wiccans are so incredibly “normalized” that any attempt to discuss any non-“fluffy” magickal topic, or any non-sheep other topic, will result in thinly veiled insults and stupid notes of “I hope you learn how to be exactly like everyone else soon” (similar to the derogatory Christian “I’ll pray for you, I’ll pray that you conform, Jesus loves you anyway, accepting other human beings is not allowed”, etc).
I did unfortunately get far enough into your article where you say you don’t like Wiccans (of that type), and yet from the ignorant, unjustified, bigoted rant in your commentary you would think that Wiccan (of that type) is exactly what you are! (That was the reason for my above paragraph… )
Calling people rapists merely because THEY HAD A CONVERSATION WITH SOMEONE YOUNGER THEN THEM, which oh by the way millions of people do every day, IT ISN’T ILLEGAL OR MORALLY WRONG IN ANY WAY, is just the type of thing a Wiccan would do…
The above should not be construed to say there is no such thing as a normal, moral, decent, accepting Wiccan. Although MOST of the ones I’ve met in THAT category do so mainly because they don’t know of the differences between Wicca and Paganism other then the Rede… and typically don’t abide by said Rede except when other decent human beings would do so.
“You are brave for telling other people that you are Pagan.” Wow. Definitely pedophilic-rapist material.
This crock of shit (article) is more difficult to comphrend that anyone could possibly believe then Holy Bible is.
Are you retarded?
A) Please see out new comment policy. But in short form it says I could give a shit what you think so get lost.
B) No one was upset by “conversations” but by adult men hooking up with children online to “teach” them this or that. Wicca is a religion that is fairly easy to abuse since it involves a good deal of sex (when done right!) so grow up and stop pretending that skeevy baby boomers who still make up stupid names for themselves (Ironrod HeartSprite Drconis for example) are anything but creepy perverts looking for teens who cut themselves while watching Twilight to orally and analy rape.
Oh and hey, go fuck yourself. Or that 60 year old you let touch you because someone on PaganSpace told you it was cool.
…Arguing is pointless because it will only lead to more arguing. While I respect the fact that you had the junk to post this, I think the tone of the article made it seem like you were blaming every Wiccan and Pagan on the site for “allowing” this, as you say. It’s a website with a couple hundred people on it, and the admins can’t monitor every conversation between every individual on the Website. People are people, regardless of religion, and some people will talk to minors and minors will talk to adults. No matter where you go, its going to happen. I’ve read some of your posts and, though you say you were Wiccan, the general Wiccan idea is “an it harm none, do what thou wilt” and posting so many comments and posts about stuff like that does insult and hurt others in some way shape or form and will get you some opposition and certainly, I hope you didn’t think saying statements like the one above:
“Oh and hey, go fuck yourself. Or that 60 year old you let touch you because someone on PaganSpace told you it was cool.”
Won’t make people talk you seriously.
*on the other hand*
I gotta say a lot of stuff you said was pretty concrete, and so was some of the stuff people commented about, how people are using our faith as a lure to kidnap minors.
I’m half and half with this post, maybe you could’ve worded it different so as not say that Wicca is a pedophile haven (in so many words) but, hell, its your opinion.
Thanks for the critique and totally missing the point. Wiccans will NEVER take keeping children safe from predators seriously because Wicca stopped being a religion in 1992 and is now a leftist sub-culture run by Atheists who don’t believe in the reality of the gods designed to destroy Western Civilization from within by attacking “Judeo-Christian” morality which in this case is the same basic morality any person (Christian or Pagan) would have – being against the sexual exploitation of children.
You’re worried about me hurting people’s feeling when right now some 13-year-old has a load in her mouth that she was told by a 50+ pedophile was a sacrament. Sorry, kid our priorities are different.
Oh and hey, thanks for the advice on how to be a doormat but like I said, I’m done with the neo-Pagan “community” and could give a shit how many child molesters you pal around with. With Pagans Against Child Abuse several child molesters were exposed and guess what? No one in your precious community cared. NO ONE.
Wicca is over, it’s done. It’s always going to be a pedophile dating club and will never be relevant again. I wash my hands of it and you should too. Why?
Read these pieces and get back to me:
http://www.red-alerts.com/eat-it-hippy/pagans-shocked-to-discover-wicca-a-manson-esque-hippy-sex-cult/
http://www.red-alerts.com/un-american-activities/never-again-the-burning-times-the-rank-hypocrisy-of-starhawk-and-the-neo-pagan-community/
http://www.red-alerts.com/resurgent-communism/did-you-know-all-nazis-are-christians-and-all-pagans-are-good-people-why-wiccans-hates-you/
And look. I don’t blog religion or politics anymore so find someone else to play with. Get yourself a copy of Paul Huson’s Mastering Witchcraft and drop the Silver Ravenwolfery and then we’ll talk. From now on Witches are allowed, but all Wiccans will be banned.
First and foremost, I commend you for wanting to protect children on the internet. But, you and your so called people did go a bit far with the contacting the police, and going behind administrations back on that website. That’s why you were banned from that website.
Second, you attack the Wiccan religion like everyone in it is all one and the same. Nothing but a butch of perverts. You say it’s a dying religion and that it’s going no where. Maybe Pagan Space is killing out the religion, but honestly, how much research have you done on the whole thing. You say Wicca is dying out, yet you only point to one website.
Third, you’ve made another mistake by posting that conversation on the internet for the public to view when you had no right to. If the said person ever found out about it, he could counter sue you and probably win. That is an invasion of privacy, at which the general public has no right. The proper thing to have done would have been to contact the proper administration to let them do what they need to do. That’s as far as anyone in the public needs to go.
Fourth, from what I get out of the whole thing, is that you were bad mouthing just as much as the said people were. So, if it were to go to court, and they had kept your conversations, it wouldn’t hold up.
Fifth, I used to be Christian, a Jesus believer. But, I’ve sense turned away from that because of all of the baloney and BS in the religion. Nothing but a bunch of crap. You bad mouth Wiccan like there is nothing to it, yet claim to have been one yourself. I can think of many things that’s just as bad about Christian based religions, like priest molesting little boys and so forth. Teaching people that they don’t have to take responsibility for their sins because Jesus will do it for them and so forth.
Sixth, this article to me looks like it’s coming from a one sided liberal perspective. Almost as thought your using one side of that brain you have. Those men who are seeking young girls on the internet, aren’t really Wiccan witches. I’ve met Wiccans, and I’m friends with several of them, and the ones I’ve met all seem to be down to earth people, and actually care about children. It looks to me as though you are saying one thing in the article and trying to please the commenter down below with something entirely different.
Lastly, let me just say that I’m not trying to get on your bad side good sir. I’m not trying to make enemies with anyone. I’m merely trying to offer constructive criticism from my point of view. No, I don’t think everyone will agree with me, and everything I have to say. It’s ok to disagree. Personally, if you asked me, I’d say I think every Wiccan community on the internet should get together to sue you for this one sided article lumping them all into one. Next time, be more open minded and choose your words carefully.
Blessings.
I was just going to delete your comment because this post is more than two years old but then I saw that you’re claiming that calling the cops on pedophiles and people sexually exploiting children is “going to far?” Really? Are you retarded?
Do you really believe that messages posted on the Internet cannot be re-posted … on the Internet? Again, are you retarded?
Why do I give a crap about your religious history? And hwy do you think Catholic priests molesting boys de-legitimizes the over 200 denominations of Christianity? Retarded and bigoted.
I was a Wiccan for more years than you’ve been pretending to be Harry Potter. Sorry douche, I know what I’m talking about. Being friends with several Wiccans that you think are good people doesn’t mitigate the actual happenings of this case.
Also since you think calling the cops on child molesters is “going to far” I find your judgment suspect.
I’m not a Liberal but this issue isn’t political.
You don’t know what constructive criticism means obviously, but more to the point you’re some sort of fascist with no understanding of defamation laws. Read a book moron. You can’t sue people for writing something you don’t like. You can’t sue people for publishing something they sent to you, because once it is sent it belongs to you. You can’t sue someone for re-printing something you post on a public forum.
Since you’re so sue happy here’s something for you to get upset over. I think you’re a pervert who lusts after children. You were wired that way because your mother was a whore and your father took it in the ass in prison, then did the same to you. Now find a lawyer who will sue me,.
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